The Commandments of Optimus Prime

Posted: April 2, 2009 in Animation, Atheism, Comedy, Religion, Television
Tags: , , , , , ,

We all know that Optimus Prime is the greatest being who has ever existed. His drive and compassion shape the Universe.  His sacrifices for us are common but always overcome.  His knowledge is unsurpassed in both matters of war and peace.  His three aspects magnificently come together to form one incredible entity.  He possesses the wisdom of the ages (in his chest) which indeed did light the darkest hour.  So how can you, a small fleshy human, even attempt to emulate the life of the greatest Autobot of them all?  Simply by following the Commandments of Optimus Prime.

I. Freedom Is The Right Of All Sentient Beings.

Thou shalt not infringe upon the freedoms of others to satisfy your own ends, goals or desires. Thou shalt let others live out their peaceful lives without asking them if they knoweth your deity when they be trying to relax at home.  Thou shalt respect the lifestyle choices of others for it shalt not be any of thy business.

II. Thou Shalt Transform And Rolleth Out.

Thou shall always be ready to change to better accommodate any situation.  Thou should always be motivated and ready to take action when action be called for.  Thou shalt not sit on thy ass and waste thy life.

III. Thou Shalt Get Out Of The Way [, Hot Rod].

Thou should strive not to make foolish mistakes for thy mistakes can cost others dearly.  Be humble and moveth aside for those that know better and learn from thy elders so that thou might not screweth up.

IV. Evil Shalt Be Stopped, No Matter The Cost.

Evil shall triumph if good men sit back and doth do nothing.  Those of ill intent to others shalt be stopped no matter the cost or consequences to thyself.

V. One Shalt Stand And One Shalt Fall.

See everything thou doth do to the end; thou shalt not backeth down like a wuss. Thou shalt put all thy efforts into thy tasks and strive until thy can strive no more. Thou shalt not make half assed efforts in thy endeavours.

VI. There Be More Than Meets Thy Eye

Judgeth not the book by its cover, speaketh not from a position of ignorance.  Thou shalt possess on open mind on all things and consider all evidence before thy reaches a conclusion.

VII. Light The Darkest Hour

Always strive to do good by all other sentient beings.  The darker or more dire a situation may look, the more will and resilience thy must summon to battle it and persevere.  Strive always to push darkness and evil back, thy shalt never back down from thy duty to spread to spread the light which is justice and peace.

VIII. Until All Are One.

All living things shalt one day be one.  Treat all life as a treasure and protect it but be use they wisdom and common sense when thy be considering risk probabilities for sometimes not all life can be saved.  Treat what life you find as you would have that life treat you and thy shalt not get smacked upside the back of thy head too much.

optimusjesusAnd for glory of Optimus Prime, let us sing the grandest of hymns set forth in his name;

You got the touch
You got the power

After all is said and done
You’ve never walked, you’ve never run,
You’re a winner

You got the moves, you know the streets
Break the rules, take the heat
You’re nobody’s fool

You’re at your best when when the goin’ gets rough
You’ve been put to the test, but it’s never enough

You got the touch
You got the power

When all hell’s breakin’ loose
You’ll be riding the eye of the storm

You got the heart
You got the motion

You know that when things get too tough
You got the touch

You never bend, you never break
You seem to know just what it takes
You’re a fighter

It’s in the blood, it’s in the will
It’s in the mighty hands of steel
When you’re standin’ your ground

And you never get hit when your back’s to the wall
Gonna fight to the end and you’re takin’ it all

You got the touch
You got the power

When all hell’s breakin’ loose
You’ll be riding the eye of the storm

You got the heart
You got the motion

You know that when things get too tough
You got the touch

You’re fightin’ fire with fire
You know you got the touch

You’re at your best when when the road gets rough
You’ve been put to the test, but it’s never enough

You got the touch
You got the power

You got the touch
You got the power

Please note:  This entry is satire/comedy intended to show the innate idiocy which most (if not all) modern religions incorporate into themselves to try to make themselves seem important and worthwhile.  Please also refer to Optimus Prime vs Jesus Christ.

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Comments
  1. ozatheist says:

    it may be satire but they are better commandments than the ones found in the bible

  2. Garrett Oden says:

    Too bad Optimus Prime was made to be a fictional character… Jesus was made to save us all

  3. Matt says:

    There’s actually more evidence for the existence of Optimus Prime (and far better records for his deed AND he has a better achievement record) than for Jesus.

    Afterall, Jesus only appears in one book of rather dubious credentials. Prime has been seen on TV, Cinemas, Books, Comics…

    And, as ozatheist has pointed out, even if he is fictional … his wisdom gives us a HUGELY better set of guidelines to live by than the bible does.

    That’s a pretty solid win for Optimus Prime!

  4. Garrett Oden says:

    There’s actually more evidence for the existence of Optimus Prime (and far better records for his deed AND he has a better achievement record) than for Jesus.

    Oh really?

    … his wisdom gives us a HUGELY better set of guidelines to live by than the bible does.

    Optimus Prime is pretty wise, but his wisdom isn’t comparable to God’s.

    • Matt says:

      Oh really?

      Yes. As I’ve already outlined. Your reading comprehension skills really do seem to be pathetic.

      Optimus Prime is pretty wise, but his wisdom isn’t comparable to God’s.

      Then kindly point out how come Optimus Prime’s satirical commandments are worse than the 10 commandments of the bible. That Optimus seems to care a lot more about life than god, his teachings and general sense of morality seem to be a LOT better than gods as well.

  5. Garrett Oden says:

    Yes. As I’ve already outlined. Your reading comprehension skills really do seem to be pathetic.

    You just say this over and over again. The burden of proof is on you to prove it.

    hat Optimus seems to care a lot more about life than god, his teachings and general sense of morality seem to be a LOT better than gods as well.

    If that is what you believe, then you truly have very little understanding of God’s love.

  6. Matt says:

    You just say this over and over again. The burden of proof is on you to prove it.

    Prove what? That there is more evidence for Optimus Prime? Already done so; Novels, TV Shows, Movies, Comics, etc. Now compare that to the evidence for your chosen deity.
    Optimus wins.

    Proof for your pathetic levels of reading comprehension? I think you own words and replies do that quite nicely already.

    If that is what you believe, then you truly have very little understanding of God’s love.

    Then show me where I’m wrong. Optimus Prime has never been directly responsible for any mass genocides. He’s constantly working to make life better for all he encounters, he actively combats evil, he holds all life as equal to his own.

    All these make Optimus Prime’s morality greater than that of your chosen deity.

  7. Garrett Oden says:

    Prove what? That there is more evidence for Optimus Prime? Already done so; Novels, TV Shows, Movies, Comics, etc. Now compare that to the evidence for your chosen deity.
    Optimus wins.

    The TV shows and books are purposefully fictional. Nobody can argue that. God has the entire universe to back Him up.

    Then show me where I’m wrong. Optimus Prime has never been directly responsible for any mass genocides. He’s constantly working to make life better for all he encounters, he actively combats evil, he holds all life as equal to his own.

    Jesus saw everybody else as better than Him. He didn’t just see everybody as equal, He became everone’s servant.

  8. Matt says:

    God has the entire universe to back Him up.

    No, he does not. He has one text which says that he has the universe to back him up. According to your rather sad argument … Odin, Zeus, Ra and every other deity ever thought of has the universe to back them up.
    Silliness.

    Jesus saw everybody else as better than Him. He didn’t just see everybody as equal, He became everone’s servant.

    Proven wrong by the way he demands that you worship him to get into paradise. Theology fail.

    Prime demands nor wants any sort of worship. He demands no tribute. He offers no option for eternal damnation. He actively battles evil and injustice as well, unlike Jesus.

  9. Garrett Oden says:

    No, he does not. He has one text which says that he has the universe to back him up. According to your rather sad argument … Odin, Zeus, Ra and every other deity ever thought of has the universe to back them up.
    Silliness.

    There is a good number of sources that verify the Bible’s teachings as truth.

    Proven wrong by the way he demands that you worship him to get into paradise. Theology fail.

    He did say that, but I have many verses that support my statement:

    Galatians 5:13 “You, my brothers were called to be free. But do not use
    your freedom to indulge in the sinful nature; rather, SERVE one another
    in love.”

    1 Peter 4:9 “Offer HOSPITALITY to one another without grumbling.”

    John 13:14 “If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet.”

  10. Matt says:

    There is a good number of sources that verify the Bible’s teachings as truth.

    You keep making the same basic mistake; making broad sweeping statements such as this but failing to provide any sort of evidence.

    He did say that, but I have many verses that support my statement:

    Not at all. You’ve just admitted that I am right, therefore (by default) you must be wrong since your stance is the opposite of mine.

    Galatians 5:13 “You, my brothers were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge in the sinful nature; rather, SERVE one another in love.”

    Which applies to the disciples and not to Jesus, which is the whole point. He’s telling them what to do but he fails completely to live up to his own teachings.

    1 Peter 4:9 “Offer HOSPITALITY to one another without grumbling.”

    Right. So a quick tip on common manners is meant to prove what…?

    John 13:14 “If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet.”

    And this refutes my stance how…? Jesus still demands that everyone placed Jesus as #1 above everything and everyone else if they don’t want to burn for eternity regardless of any feet washing he may or may not have done to try to get a point across.

    You have yet to show how the Bible’s commandments are any better than the Commandments of Optimus Prime in any way. It’d be funny if it weren’t so sad.

  11. Garrett Oden says:

    You keep making the same basic mistake; making broad sweeping statements such as this but failing to provide any sort of evidence.

    Hmm. You have done the same.

    Well for instance there is the science aspect of the Bible’s authenticity:http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

    There is textual evidence, prophecies, and historians that we rely on much to gather knowledge even verified Jesus’ existence and power.

    Not at all.

    Uh yes… I gave you three verses.

    You’ve just admitted that I am right, therefore (by default) you must be wrong since your stance is the opposite of mine.

    Jesus said He is the only way, but that doesn’t mean that He was a servant.

    Which applies to the disciples and not to Jesus, which is the whole point. He’s telling them what to do but he fails completely to live up to his own teachings.

    No He doesn’t Jesus was the ultimate servant.

    Right. So a quick tip on common manners is meant to prove what…?

    When you give things you are serving.
    Ex: Say you have some guys come hang out. You offer hospitality by asking them what they would like to drink and getting it for them. That would be serving.

    And this refutes my stance how…? Jesus still demands that everyone placed Jesus as #1 above everything and everyone else if they don’t want to burn for eternity regardless of any feet washing he may or may not have done to try to get a point across.

    This refutes the statement that Jesus didn’t live up to His own teachings. Just like it says: If Jesus washed your feet, then you should also wash each others feet. And if Jesus washed feet, then He sure lived up to being called a servant, since that was an extremely low job.

    You have yet to show how the Bible’s commandments are any better than the Commandments of Optimus Prime in any way. It’d be funny if it weren’t so sad.

    Well better is an opinion. Optimus’ commandments are good, there is no doubt. I do not deny that they are great commandments to live by. But “good” is also an opinion, and different people have different opinions on what is “good”.

  12. Matt says:

    There is textual evidence, prophecies, and historians that we rely on much to gather knowledge even verified Jesus’ existence and power.

    What textual evidence of Jesus’ divine nature?
    Prophecies are self fulfilling.
    Historians? Which ones? If you even say Josephus, I know you’re simply wasting everyone’s time.

    Jesus said He is the only way, but that doesn’t mean that He was a servant.

    Sheesh. You can’t even get your own story straight, it’s amazing. Your idiocy truly knows few bounds. First he’s not a servant, then he’s the ultimate servant…

    This refutes the statement that Jesus didn’t live up to His own teachings.

    Of course he didn’t. You just need to look at the whole moneylender hissy fit for a prime example of that. He failed utterly to show compassion to people all over the place, including those poor grieving people he wouldn’t let bury dead family members. That is an act of a malicious bastard.

  13. Garrett Oden says:

    What textual evidence of Jesus’ divine nature?

    Well there are thousands!
    http://www.opposingviews.com/arguments/postscript-on-independent-corroboration

    Sheesh. You can’t even get your own story straight, it’s amazing. Your idiocy truly knows few bounds. First he’s not a servant, then he’s the ultimate servant…

    Oops my mistake I left out a word on accident.
    Jesus said He is the only way, but that doesn’t mean that He wasn’t a servant.

    There we go.

  14. Matt says:

    Well there are thousands!
    http://www.opposingviews.com/arguments/postscript-on-independent-corroboration

    You can’t even link to an article on the right subject. Try. Read.
    I said evidence of his divine nature, not his existence.
    Sheesh.

    Jesus said He is the only way, but that doesn’t mean that He wasn’t a servant.

    Yes, it does. Because saying he’s the only way instantly elevates him above every single living thing in all of existence. That means that you have to worship him and do what he says; that makes him (according to his own teachings) the boss.

  15. Garrett Oden says:

    You can’t even link to an article on the right subject. Try. Read.
    I said evidence of his divine nature, not his existence.
    Sheesh.

    Well if we can find that the Bible is completely accurate, then it’s content would be… accurate. So His divine nature would be proved by the Bible, which was talked about in the link I showed you. Aren’t you supposed to be the smart one?

    Yes, it does. Because saying he’s the only way instantly elevates him above every single living thing in all of existence.

    You can be a king and still serve your people. Actually, would you not agree that the governments real job is to serve the people? By keeping us safe and defending our rights, either way it’s serving. Am I wrong?

  16. Matt says:

    Well if we can find that the Bible is completely accurate, then it’s content would be… accurate.

    However, that has been far from even casually proved. The article talked about the existence of someone in the past called Jesus – which is a pretty good bet considering how common the name was. Nothing was said about divine nature.

    You can be a king and still serve your people.

    But you’re not a servant, you’re the king which is a specified role. As king, you’re the head honcho. Also whether or not the King is even working for the best interests for the people can be extremely dubious.

    Actually, would you not agree that the governments real job is to serve the people?

    If you think that’s what the average government is doing, then I would have to say you’re still very naive.

  17. Garrett Oden says:

    However, that has been far from even casually proved. The article talked about the existence of someone in the past called Jesus – which is a pretty good bet considering how common the name was. Nothing was said about divine nature.

    Well that article is just the beginning of validating the Bible.

    But you’re not a servant, you’re the king which is a specified role. As king, you’re the head honcho. Also whether or not the King is even working for the best interests for the people can be extremely dubious.

    But the king’s duty is to serve the people. Would you disagree?

    If you think that’s what the average government is doing, then I would have to say you’re still very naive.

    Well it is based on surveys and polls taken throughout the United States. Studies show that most people have very little knowledge of the things we are talking about Matt.

  18. Matt says:

    Well that article is just the beginning of validating the Bible.

    It validates nothing about the bible. All it does validate is that there were people walking around at the time called Jesus – which we knew anyhow because it was (and still is) a very common name in the area.

    But the king’s duty is to serve the people. Would you disagree?

    You’re trying, rather badly I might add, to argue semantics. That is silliness. What someone’s duty may be is not necessarily what they’re actually doing. It also entirely depends on which model of monarchy you’re going with.

    Well it is based on surveys and polls taken throughout the United States.

    Which surveys? Which studies? Also, as you yourself point out, most people are remarkably ignorant so even if these surveys exist … they don’t amount to much anyhow.

    Studies show that most people have very little knowledge of the things we are talking about Matt.

    It seems clear that you have no clue, for starters.

  19. Garrett Oden says:

    What someone’s duty may be is not necessarily what they’re actually doing. It also entirely depends on which model of monarchy you’re going with.

    That is totally true, but it doesn’t show that Jesus wasn’t a servant.

    Which surveys? Which studies? Also, as you yourself point out, most people are remarkably ignorant so even if these surveys exist … they don’t amount to much anyhow.

    Most people are ignorant. That was what I was trying to get across.

    It seems clear that you have no clue, for starters.

    What does that have to do with studies revealing people’s dumbness?

  20. Matt says:

    That is totally true, but it doesn’t show that Jesus wasn’t a servant.

    You’re going in circles again.
    His own actions, commands and words showed that he wasn’t a servant in nature.

    Most people are ignorant. That was what I was trying to get across.

    Good. You’re one of them, judging by your own comments and lack of knowledge about science and theology.

  21. Garrett Oden says:

    His own actions, commands and words showed that he wasn’t a servant in nature.

    3-6Jesus knew that the Father had put him in complete charge of everything, that he came from God and was on his way back to God. So he got up from the supper table, set aside his robe, and put on an apron. Then he poured water into a basin and began to wash the feet of the disciples, drying them with his apron. When he got to Simon Peter, Peter said, “Master, you wash my feet?”

    You can read the rest of the convo here:http://organicleadership.wordpress.com/2007/04/06/jesuss-leadership-part-1-being-a-servant/

    That link provides a good post about Jesus being a servant.

    Good. You’re one of them, judging by your own comments and lack of knowledge about science and theology.

    Like you have said many times before: your opinion is not evidence.

  22. Matt says:

    First part; In no way addresses the point I’ve made about Jesus setting himself up to be the big head honcho you HAVE to go through to escape eternal torment.

    He decided to set the rules and enforce them even though he could change them at any instant he liked. He’s the one that demands worship and has a track record of chucking hissy fits when he doesn’t get it. He’s the one guilty of being really jealous and having whole nations slaughtered because they don’t worship him.

    And why some of those things are old testament based, it doesn’t not matter due to the nature of the supposed trinity where they’re all the one supreme being – thus they all are as responsible for the other two parts for malicious acts committed.

    Like you have said many times before: your opinion is not evidence.

    Would you like me to go through all your comments and list your examples of scientific ignorance and other intellectual failures? That should be more than enough evidence of your ignorance.

  23. Garrett Oden says:

    First part; In no way addresses the point I’ve made about Jesus setting himself up to be the big head honcho you HAVE to go through to escape eternal torment.

    Jesus is pretty much the big honcho, but He still was a servant, and we are supposed to follow in His footsteps.

    Would you like me to go through all your comments and list your examples of scientific ignorance and other intellectual failures? That should be more than enough evidence of your ignorance.

    Where have I stated that my opinion was evidence?

  24. Matt says:

    Jesus is pretty much the big honcho, but He still was a servant, and we are supposed to follow in His footsteps.

    Just look at what you wrote. “He’s the big honcho” and “follow in his footsteps” and compare that to “he was still a servant”.
    Contradictory in a complete sense of the term.

    Where have I stated that my opinion was evidence?

    Every single time you have presented your uninformed opinion in a rebuttal against things like the Theory of Evolution. A clear cut case of trying to present your opinion (and ignorance) as evidence. You certainly, thus far, have presented zero scientific evidence, that is for sure.

  25. Garrett Oden says:

    Just look at what you wrote. “He’s the big honcho” and “follow in his footsteps” and compare that to “he was still a servant”.
    Contradictory in a complete sense of the term.

    Why cannot a king be a servant of the people? You act like that is totally impossible.

    Every single time you have presented your uninformed opinion in a rebuttal against things like the Theory of Evolution. A clear cut case of trying to present your opinion (and ignorance) as evidence. You certainly, thus far, have presented zero scientific evidence, that is for sure.

    Copy and paste something here. I don’t think you will be able to find much.

    I told you facts about dating processes. Stop saying I have told you nothing scientific.

  26. Matt says:

    Why cannot a king be a servant of the people? You act like that is totally impossible.

    I never said it was impossible. There have been cases in human history of some monarchy’s being quite enlightened and helping out the common people. However, both Jesus’ actions and words go directly against such a notion.

    Copy and paste something here. I don’t think you will be able to find much.

    “There is a good number of sources that verify the Bible’s teachings as truth. ”

    “Well there are thousands!
    http://www.opposingviews.com/arguments/postscript-on-independent-corroboration

    “Well if we can find that the Bible is completely accurate, then it’s content would be… accurate. So His divine nature would be proved by the Bible, which was talked about in the link I showed you. Aren’t you supposed to be the smart one?”

    And that’s just from this thread. Moving on to another one for some more examples of ignorance…

    “I am not making it up, but I do not know the exact number. ”

    “Selection by whom?”

    “Now isn’t it chance that a mutation comes along? Then by chance that it survives and continues along to others?”

    “Well God made each and every snowflake. Is it logical to believe that every single form of a snowflake can come from anything but God?”

    “But nothing can be chosen without inteligence choosing it, or else it wouldn’t be selected. So really it’s not a selection, but just a random chance, like rolling a die. If I chose the number and moved it there, that would be selection. If I just roll it, it is chance.”

    “Why do Evolutionists have such a hard time finding real evidence?”

    “By the way I see it (and the way it really is), you are the ones who ignore the truth and have shut out real science.”

    “The first site is based entirely on guesses, or observations if you wish. Either way, it’s not solid evidence, it’s an interpretation.”

    “It sure takes a lot of faith to believe in Evolution.”

    “Well a global flood did happen!”

    “Well we can start with the rock layers.
    They are not in nice organized layers like pictures say they do. Actually they are upside down, mixed up, and some fossils even penetrate through multiple layers.”

    “There are millions of missing links.”

    “Hydrogen cannot make life. It’s not near stable enough.”

    “Irreducibly complex systems exist.”

    “There is no evidence for “primordial soup”.”

    “Radiometric dating isn’t accurate. Carbon dating is rarely accurate. Relative dating isn’t accurate. ”

    And that’s just a very quick sample from a quick review of Garrett’s comments; all displaying a remarkable ignorance of science, English and even theology.

    I told you facts about dating processes. Stop saying I have told you nothing scientific.

    You have stated your opinion or what you believe to be the facts about certain testing procedures. Your opinion, however, does not match up with reality as shown by the scientific peer reviewed research I have previously linked to and/or referenced.

  27. Garrett Oden says:

    I never said it was impossible. There have been cases in human history of some monarchy’s being quite enlightened and helping out the common people. However, both Jesus’ actions and words go directly against such a notion.

    You were talking about how it was very contradictory. Changing your story now?

    The best answer should cover the Jesus’s actions being servant-like.http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080906184917AAApG1r

    You cannot deny the Bible says He did servantly actions.

    “There is a good number of sources that verify the Bible’s teachings as truth. ”

    The “good” is the only opinion part. But that is not the main reason to believe in that statement. The truth is there are thousands of documents that validate the Bible. That wasn’t an opinion either.

    “I am not making it up, but I do not know the exact number. ”
    “Selection by whom?”

    Neither of those are opinions either.

    “Now isn’t it chance that a mutation comes along? Then by chance that it survives and continues along to others?”

    Mutations happen by chance. That would be a fact.

    “Well God made each and every snowflake. Is it logical to believe that every single form of a snowflake can come from anything but God?”

    Ah! The first real opinion-based statement.

    “But nothing can be chosen without inteligence choosing it, or else it wouldn’t be selected. So really it’s not a selection, but just a random chance, like rolling a die. If I chose the number and moved it there, that would be selection. If I just roll it, it is chance.”

    Yeah that would be another fact.

    “Why do Evolutionists have such a hard time finding real evidence?”

    I guess that makes 2 opinions!

    “By the way I see it (and the way it really is), you are the ones who ignore the truth and have shut out real science.”

    That would be a fact.

    “The first site is based entirely on guesses, or observations if you wish. Either way, it’s not solid evidence, it’s an interpretation.”

    Yeah that would also be a fact.

    “It sure takes a lot of faith to believe in Evolution.”

    Fact.

    “Well a global flood did happen!”

    Fact.

    “Well we can start with the rock layers.
    They are not in nice organized layers like pictures say they do. Actually they are upside down, mixed up, and some fossils even penetrate through multiple layers.”

    Ok you even agreed that the layers aren’t nice and neat like pictures portray. Fact.

    “There are millions of missing links.”

    That is so not an opinion…

    “Hydrogen cannot make life. It’s not near stable enough.”

    Once again… fact.

    “Irreducibly complex systems exist.”

    Fact.

    “There is no evidence for “primordial soup”.”

    This also happens to be a fact.

    “Radiometric dating isn’t accurate. Carbon dating is rarely accurate. Relative dating isn’t accurate. ”

    Now there is opinion in this: levels of accurate can be an opinion of you make it to be, but still a fact that they aren’t reliable for very specific dates.

    You have stated your opinion or what you believe to be the facts about certain testing procedures. Your opinion, however, does not match up with reality as shown by the scientific peer reviewed research I have previously linked to and/or referenced.

    That was not an opinion. Those statements about those procedures are true. Look them up, surely it won’t be that hard.

  28. Matt says:

    You were talking about how it was very contradictory. Changing your story now?

    How ever did you get that idea? Your reading comprehension truly seems to be low.
    And your appealing to a yahoo answers page … right. Your criteria for evidence truly is minuscule.

    The truth is there are thousands of documents that validate the Bible. That wasn’t an opinion either.

    Yet you haven’t been able to bring them forth let alone name them. Odd that.

    Neither of those are opinions either.

    They aren’t presented as your opinions, they’re presented as examples of your incredible scientific ignorance.
    As per every example listed previously; examples of your ignorance and not your opinion.

    You state those things to be fact but both myself and AV have disproved all those things. No irreducibly complex systems exist, a global flood never happened, etc etc.

    Those statements about those procedures are true. Look them up, surely it won’t be that hard.

    You truly are a simpering idiot of a dolt. I have already provided direct links and/or references to a dozen or so scientific papers which blow your uninformed stance completely out of the water.

  29. Garrett Oden says:

    How ever did you get that idea? Your reading comprehension truly seems to be low.
    And your appealing to a yahoo answers page … right. Your criteria for evidence truly is minuscule.

    You said that it was totally contradictory to be a king and a servant at the same time. Now you say it is possible.

    Yet you haven’t been able to bring them forth let alone name them. Odd that.

    Well here are some off the top of my head:
    Dead Sea Scrolls
    Thallus
    Tiberius
    Julius Africanus
    Josepheus

    Just Google some more those are only from the top of my head.

    As per every example listed previously; examples of your ignorance and not your opinion.

    But many of those things are facts. Are facts ignorant?

  30. Matt says:

    You said that it was totally contradictory to be a king and a servant at the same time. Now you say it is possible.

    It is contradictory in nature; you can’t rule people and serve them at the same time unless it’s very special circumstances. I’m actually having a tricky time thinking of a time it has actually happened (practically speaking, not just in theory) in human history.

    Jesus set himself up a ruler/big boss/head honcho and set all the rules while doing practically nothing for other people. He was not a servant.

    Well here are some off the top of my head:
    Dead Sea Scrolls

    You need to stop using this one. They weren’t written until at the very least decades after Jesus croaked it and were written with a self serving purpose for the emerging christian cult of the time. You may as well be trying to use holy texts of pantheons such as the Norse, Greek or Roman gods which were similar in nature.

    Thallus

    Doesn’t count as valid. Name was extremely common, only sparse fragments survive of said work. Also based his work off Josephus’ work – which isn’t valid anyhow. Thallus’ work was also written no sooner than 100 hundred years after Jesus bought the farm. No good.

    Tiberius

    The roman emperor? Doesn’t prove a thing. You need to provide a lot more details.

    Julius Africanus

    His works date around 300 years after Jesus kicked the bucket. That seriously hurts his credibility. He was also not writing from a neutral perspective (being a devout christian himself) which brings his credibility once again under serious question. He also calculated the age of the Earth to be about 5500 years old at the time of his life; which we now know to be horribly, horribly wrong – this also has an impact on his credibility.

    Josepheus

    I’m fairly sure I’ve already told you not to use him, to save everyone time. Fine. His credibility as a historian is questionable to say the least; his works are peppered by personal opinion and Roman propaganda. Origen’s writings, just as an example, also bring much doubt on Josephus’ writings.

    So that means you’ve brought nothing credible to the table. You need to try much harder.

    But many of those things are facts. Are facts ignorant?

    None of them are facts, that is the point. All the evidence, for example, goes completely against a global flood ever occurring. There are no irreducibly complex biological systems. They are not facts.

    You may believe they might have happened but there is no evidence to support such a stance. They are not events supported by science in any way.

  31. Garrett Oden says:

    Jesus set himself up a ruler/big boss/head honcho and set all the rules while doing practically nothing for other people. He was not a servant.

    You said He did nothing for His people. That is not true. Did you go to the link I sent you? It has loads of things that Jesus did for others. Look again and reconsider please.

    You need to stop using this one. They weren’t written until at the very least decades after Jesus croaked

    We all see it as truth that Alexander the Great lived. The writings for him were written hundreds of years after he died. 30 years isn’t really that bad compared to that!

    The roman emperor? Doesn’t prove a thing. You need to provide a lot more details.

    Some of his writing talked of his issues with Jesus.

    Doesn’t count as valid. Name was extremely common, only sparse fragments survive of said work. Also based his work off Josephus’ work – which isn’t valid anyhow. Thallus’ work was also written no sooner than 100 hundred years after Jesus bought the farm. No good.

    Josephus’ work is perfectly valid.

    His works date around 300 years after Jesus kicked the bucket. That seriously hurts his credibility.

    Now Alexander the Great’s earliest writings where about 400-500 years after he died. 300 is considerably lower still.

    He actually quoted other people’s writings that included Jesus. The writing wasn’t originally his. So not really 300 years old.

    I’m fairly sure I’ve already told you not to use him, to save everyone time.

    I am telling you to commit suicide, but that would be crazy.

    None of them are facts, that is the point.

    I told you there are millions of missing links. That would be a fact.

  32. Matt says:

    You said He did nothing for His people. That is not true. Did you go to the link I sent you? It has loads of things that Jesus did for others. Look again and reconsider please.

    I looked. I saw nothing convincing in the least.

    We all see it as truth that Alexander the Great lived. The writings for him were written hundreds of years after he died. 30 years isn’t really that bad compared to that!

    There is a lot more evidence for AtG’s existence. Also the claims about his existence are a lot less extraordinary than for Jesus. After all, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    Some of his writing talked of his issues with Jesus.

    Evidence fail. See here about Thallus:
    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/thallus.html

    Josephus’ work is perfectly valid.

    No, it’s not. You have failed to present any rebuttal to the trouble with his works.

    Now Alexander the Great’s earliest writings where about 400-500 years after he died. 300 is considerably lower still.

    See above about that.

    He actually quoted other people’s writings that included Jesus. The writing wasn’t originally his. So not really 300 years old.

    None of those original writings exist, their authenticity is impossible to gauge. Africanus’ writing is dubious at best, since it is clear that he made things up to suit his own purposes: a three hour eclipse that covered the whole world for example. Now no one else (especially independent chroniclers) mentions this happening and it would have been impossible due to the position of the moon and sun at that time.
    You also failed to address the rest of the problems with Africanus. Evidence fail.

    I told you there are millions of missing links. That would be a fact.

    And someone else has already told you the problem with that rather idiotic line of thinking: Every time a new missing link is found (and lots have been), suddenly there are two more gaps.

  33. Garrett Oden says:

    I looked. I saw nothing convincing in the least.

    It says in plain text: He washed His disciples feet.

    There is a lot more evidence for AtG’s existence. Also the claims about his existence are a lot less extraordinary than for Jesus. After all, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    This is true, but this doesn’t rationalize using the time scale as a reason not to believe. And wouldn’t great miracles last 30 years easily anyways? You really just made it less of a problem with the time.

    yet it is not mentioned anywhere else outside of Christian rhetoric, so we can probably dismiss the idea of this being a real event.

    Got that from the link you gave me. This is false.

    None of those original writings exist, their authenticity is impossible to gauge.

    Maybe they don’t exist now, but at one time we know that they did. Other writers quoted the same statements.

    Africanus’ writing is dubious at best, since it is clear that he made things up to suit his own purposes: a three hour eclipse that covered the whole world for example.

    Eclipses don’t cover the entire world, so obviously that wasn’t the case.

    And someone else has already told you the problem with that rather idiotic line of thinking: Every time a new missing link is found (and lots have been), suddenly there are two more gaps.

    Haha you are right I did hear that somewhere. But of course that still doesn’t say that there are no missing links. There really are, thousands of missing links. Based on the logic you talked about, there would be an infinite number of missing links.

  34. Matt says:

    He washed His disciples feet.

    So? It was a symbolic gesture and certainly did nothing to lessen Jesus’ status as the ruler of everyone else. Even Popes wash other feet in certain ceremonies but that does not mean he’s the servant of Archbishops.

    This is true, but this doesn’t rationalize using the time scale as a reason not to believe.

    Yes, it does. AtG was a man of note but none attached extraordinary powers or characteristics to him. The evidence we have about the man is pretty solid so we accept that AtG existed and did what history attributes to him.

    On the other hand, we have Jesus who did have extraordinary powers attributed to him and other extraordinary things. There is no extraordinary evidence to support this or any real evidence at all. Therefore, we are left with the conclusion is didn’t happen.

    Time plays an important role when it comes to chronicling historical events. Things tend to be exaggerated when it comes to writing about characters held in high esteem (which is why historians who show personal bias are routinely disregarded as being credible, since they tend to be creative with the truth). The events attributed to AtG are, in the grand scale of things, pretty common and can be verified due to other records showing the effects those actions had on certain civilisations. There’s no problem there, especially when you add in that those who wrote about AtG are all historians regarded as being quite credible and fine.

    Now compare that to Jesus; who has no credible historians writing about him and whose acts are far from common. It would seem a case of his actions being exaggerated by word of mouth and story telling until such time they became magical miracles.

    And wouldn’t great miracles last 30 years easily anyways?

    If great miracles really happened, then everyone would be writing about them – not just those sympathetic to certain causes.

    Got that from the link you gave me. This is false.

    Yet you provide no evidence to show it is false. Evidence fail.

    Eclipses don’t cover the entire world, so obviously that wasn’t the case.

    Therefore Africanus is not a credible writer since he made stuff up to make his writings seem more exciting. Concession accepted.

    But of course that still doesn’t say that there are no missing links. There really are, thousands of missing links.

    And your point is? Science has never claimed they have all fossil remains. Fossilisation only happens under certain circumstances and isn’t all that common at all. Yet science does have dozens of remains which are transitional fossils both in human ancestry and other species.

    So to claim there are missing links is … well, not an argument at all to begin with.

  35. Garrett Oden says:

    So? It was a symbolic gesture and certainly did nothing to lessen Jesus’ status as the ruler of everyone else. Even Popes wash other feet in certain ceremonies but that does not mean he’s the servant of Archbishops.

    So I gave you examples of when Jesus was a servant which you said there were none.

    That doesn’t mean that they are servants of the archbishops.

    Yes, it does. AtG was a man of note but none attached extraordinary powers or characteristics to him. The evidence we have about the man is pretty solid so we accept that AtG existed and did what history attributes to him.

    We have solid evidence for Jesus’ works, some people just choose to not see it.

    Now compare that to Jesus; who has no credible historians writing about him and whose acts are far from common. It would seem a case of his actions being exaggerated by word of mouth and story telling until such time they became magical miracles.

    But He does have credible historians who have written about Him. His marvelous acts only enforce the originality of the story. If somebody did something really cool, you are going to remember it for a long time.

    Yet you provide no evidence to show it is false. Evidence fail.

    Well I already gave you several examples of historians outside of the Bible who wrote of Jesus. Whether you accept that they are accurate or not doesn’t matter, they still wrote of Him which is the opposite of what you are saying.

    If great miracles really happened, then everyone would be writing about them – not just those sympathetic to certain causes.

    There were quite a few writings of them. I can name four off the top of my head: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Humor is good!

    But seriously, there are quite a few others, just can’t think of any off the top of my head.

    Therefore Africanus is not a credible writer since he made stuff up to make his writings seem more exciting.

    So that may have been his theory, don’t tell me you don’t have theories.

  36. Matt says:

    So I gave you examples of when Jesus was a servant which you said there were none.

    He performed a servant like act but that does not mean he is a servant. People do lots of little servant like acts every day for completely strangers (helping picking up dropped packages as a quick example). It does not mean we’re their servants.

    That doesn’t mean that they are servants of the archbishops.

    Exactly. The Pope washes the feet Archbishops and Cardinals in certain ceremonies but he is not their servant by any stretch of the imagination. The Pope performs a servant like act but he’s not a servant.

    We have solid evidence for Jesus’ works, some people just choose to not see it.

    “We have solid evidence for Optimus Prime’s works, some people just choose to not see it.”

    See how silly that line of argument is?
    There is no solid evidence either, as you should have discovered by now.

    But He does have credible historians who have written about Him.

    Like who? Everyone you’ve listed so far has been far from credible.

    Well I already gave you several examples of historians outside of the Bible who wrote of Jesus. Whether you accept that they are accurate or not doesn’t matter, they still wrote of Him which is the opposite of what you are saying.

    By that logic we need to accept the Iliad as fact since people wrote of it centuries after it originated. That same argument can also be applied to differing religious beliefs right across the world – especially those ones which lasted some time such as the ancient egyptian pantheon.

    There were quite a few writings of them. I can name four off the top of my head: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Humor is good!

    Right. I will take that reply as a bad attempt at a joke then and ignore it.

    So that may have been his theory, don’t tell me you don’t have theories.

    There are theories and then there’s just making clearly impossible stuff up to try to make your story more exciting. A world wide three day solar eclipse? Um, no. His credibility is completely shot – either he made it up completely, didn’t do even basic fact checking or simply got it wrong. With any available option, his credibility is non-existent.

  37. Garrett Oden says:

    He performed a servant like act but that does not mean he is a servant. People do lots of little servant like acts every day for completely strangers (helping picking up dropped packages as a quick example). It does not mean we’re their servants.

    Well this is just something that comes down to what we call serving. When you serve somebody, even in small ways, we become servants, but that is my opinion, and what the Bible teaches.

    See how silly that line of argument is?

    Almost as silly as Evolution.

    Everyone you’ve listed so far has been far from credible.

    Not really. I gave you some people, and you chose not to believe me, that is your choice. But it doesn’t change the fact that they talked of Jesus and are taken seriously.

    By that logic we need to accept the Iliad as fact since people wrote of it centuries after it originated. That same argument can also be applied to differing religious beliefs right across the world – especially those ones which lasted some time such as the ancient egyptian pantheon.

    There are other pieces to the puzzle.

    Right. I will take that reply as a bad attempt at a joke then and ignore it.

    Ah well we can’t all have the same sense of humor.

    There are theories and then there’s just making clearly impossible stuff up to try to make your story more exciting.

    How do you tell the difference?

  38. Matt says:

    When you serve somebody, even in small ways, we become servants, but that is my opinion, and what the Bible teaches.

    No, you don’t become servants – don’t be silly. You can perform small servant like acts but that does not make you a servant. And what the bible teaches is irrelevant since we’ve already established it’s not a credible source for … well, anything.

    Almost as silly as Evolution.

    Not a rebuttal of any sort. Try again.

    Not really. I gave you some people, and you chose not to believe me, that is your choice. But it doesn’t change the fact that they talked of Jesus and are taken seriously.

    They are not taken seriously by wider historian circles. The only people who do take them seriously are christian apologetics who … well, we can safely say they have a vested interest in taking them seriously.

    There are other pieces to the puzzle.

    Which you have yet to name. Try harder.

    How do you tell the difference?

    Corroborating evidence is a good start, obviously.
    In short, if someone makes an extraordinary claim and there is no evidence to support said claim – then you have to assume said claim is false until evidence does appear.

  39. Garrett Oden says:

    No, you don’t become servants – don’t be silly. You can perform small servant like acts but that does not make you a servant. And what the bible teaches is irrelevant since we’ve already established it’s not a credible source for … well, anything.

    Well if you have established that then you have done a poor job. Here is a book that shows the Bible’s reliablity real well: The Case for Christ; By Lee Strobel.

    And then either way you put it, God calls us to be servants in my opinion, and God calls us to do servant-like acts in yours.

    Corroborating evidence is a good start, obviously.
    In short, if someone makes an extraordinary claim and there is no evidence to support said claim – then you have to assume said claim is false until evidence does appear.

    And what evidence do we have of the Big Bang?

    They are not taken seriously by wider historian circles.

    Well probably because most people don’t wanna accept Jesus as their savior. So that comment is of course bias, but probably true. But that doesn’t mean that they really weren’t credible, just shows some people think that they aren’t.

  40. Matt says:

    Well if you have established that then you have done a poor job. Here is a book that shows the Bible’s reliablity real well: The Case for Christ; By Lee Strobel.

    This is the second time you’ve brought up Strobel’s book. After you did it the first time, I provided you with independent analysis for said book which shows it to be as credible as a tweed jacket wearing, greasy moustached second hand car dealer who happens to have a bad comb over.

    Here’s a few more critical reviews of his work, just for shits and giggles:
    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/strobel.html
    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/paul_doland/strobel.html
    http://www.caseagainstfaith.com/articles/strobel_cfac.htm

    And what evidence do we have of the Big Bang?

    Here’s a quick list:
    Large-scale homogeneity
    Hubble Diagram
    Abundances of light elements
    Existence of the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation
    Fluctuations in the CMBR
    Large-scale structure of the universe
    Age of stars
    Evolution of galaxies
    Time dilation in supernova brightness curves
    Tolman tests
    Sunyaev-Zel’dovich effect
    Integrated Sachs-Wolfe effect
    Dark Matter
    Dark Energy
    Consistency

    I recommend the following website for any explanations of the above items: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/astronomy/bigbang.html

    Even the wiki article ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang ) is a good place to learn the basics, oddly enough.

    Well probably because most people don’t wanna accept Jesus as their savior.

    That’s just a cheap rewording of the really horrible argument of “You can’t see the evidence unless you believe!”

  41. Duke says:

    After having read the entire 40 response argument and seeing as Garrett Oden has not replied since April would make it seem that the Commandments of Prime win the arguement. What is utterly amasing is the fact that a fictional being of no more than 25 years of age trumps an interpretation of a religious text. Simply brilliant. I’m not the religious sort so I don’t see me going to the church of Primus any time soon, but still, well done for winning the argument.

    But, let’s be fair, it’s a pretty daft argument.

  42. Nem says:

    HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAH! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fdYaRMryJM check this out hahahhaha

  43. I tip my hat to this wonderful piece good sir and the even better comment section!! Consider me subscribed to this slice of interwebs!

    That being said, ALL HAIL MEGATRON!

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